My 1977 1250 QL

[Matt G.]

Originally Posted by bkw3614

The instructions recommend torquing the mounts to 100 inch pounds, but many shy away from this. The diagram shown in a previous post is the diagram of the OEM mount. What is not shown is the torque specification. When I tightened my mounts, the vibration seemed to be a bit less.

As we have been beating to death recently, 100 in-lb torque suggested by CC is to be disregarded. When installing new mounts, use new nylock nuts and original length bolts, tightening them such that 2-3 threads are showing through the nut. This works. Tightening them to 100 in-lb will crush them, as you've probably discovered already.

[bkw3614]

Matt,

Why, then, do I experience more vibration with the mounts loose in their mountings, such as with the nuts at two threads showing? I experience a little bit less vibration with the mounts tightened down.

Why is it, when I contacted MTD, the parts supplier, that they continued to recommend the 100 inch-pound torque after I explained my problem to them? I asked them about ruining the mounts due to overtightening and they told me that was nonsense.


Brian Wittman

[justanengineer]

Thanks for the warm welcome as well as the knowledge fellas. As the photo below shows, I was able to get the engine out after about 30 mins work tonight. It was a combination of exciting and somewhat depressing as almost all of the fasteners had their original paint still perfect on them. I must also give IHC credit, previous experience with fasteners on other colored larger iron has been that everything is TIGHT. On this tractor, everything was barely snug, yet no hardware was missing that I can find, and after 35 years I was still able to crack bolts/nuts loose with 1/4 wrench turn then unscrew by hand. Hopefully to contribute an idea for others - I dont have an available hoist as I havent moved most of my tools to the new/old house yet, and rather than grunt it due to the awkwardness of handling, I ran a strap around a long 4x4 to make a "handle" that myself and her could get on each end of. We lifted, and I then fed her the excess length from my side in order to place the engine alongside the tractor without either of us taking a single step.

Found another item to buy - a driveshaft fan. The currently installed one is painted yellow and has no more than 1/2" of any blade left on the hub.

Unfortunately I had a rather busy day today, and have to be up in another 7 hours for another 10 of work, so I did not pull the old pan tonight. I will take a pic or two when I do and we can check to make sure IHC installed balance gears along with any other requests.

[Matt G.]

Originally Posted by bkw3614

Matt,

Why, then, do I experience more vibration with the mounts loose in their mountings, such as with the nuts at two threads showing? I experience a little bit less vibration with the mounts tightened down.

If I've followed the progression of your posts correctly, you installed the mounts as per the instructions, and squashed the mounts by doing so, since you say the mounts were 'loose in their mountings' when the nut is backed off so that two threads are showing. You permanently deformed them. They would not have been loose if they had not be tightened to 100 in-lb initially, and so they would have worked well like they have for the dozens of other people that have tightened them how I explained, myself included. As I told you either in another thread or on the other forum (or perhaps both) you've essentially ruined those mounts by overtightening them initially, and you will not get the same results as if you had installed them correctly (by disregarded the kit instructions) the first time.

Why is it, when I contacted MTD, the parts supplier, that they continued to recommend the 100 inch-pound torque after I explained my problem to them? I asked them about ruining the mounts due to overtightening and they told me that was nonsense.

Brian Wittman

The fact that they told you ruining them due to overtightening is 'nonsense' clearly shows that whoever you talked to has never actually installed those mounts and seen what actually happens. Just because they supply the parts doesn't mean they know what they're talking about. I hate to sound like a broken record, but DOZENS of people have installed the mounts as I've explained numerous times with good results. I've never heard of anyone being happy after following the directions.

You can continue to accept MTD's 'advice' as gospel, but there is a lot of cumulative experience with the installation method that's been provided on this forum and others that proves the instructions don't work.

[R Bedell]

Being in the HVAC/R trade, there is one thing I have learned a long time ago. A parts guy is NOT a service tech and vice versa. It is fruitless to ask a Parts Man a technical question. They may know how to look parts real good, get the parts you need...... BUT may have never turned a wrench, let alone read or look into a service manual.

[justanengineer]

Originally Posted by R Bedell

A parts guy is NOT a service tech and vice versa.

Unfortunately, I discover this quite often, more so the vice versa scenario tho as I do the majority of my own work and remain skeptical throughout. I actually experienced it today - received a new oil pan on my doorstep and discovered the gasket the local dealer sold me a few days back was wrong. Luckily, I arrived back at the dealer with 5 minutes to spare before closing and got it exchanged.

I also got a quote on new ISO mounts from the same dealer today and experienced a bit of sticker shock, but thought I should inquire herein about the price. The quote was for $100 for 4 mounts and 2 front rubber bumpers, complete with all of the necessary hardware, which I think is rather exorbitant, but list is supposedly $120+. I see several other aftermarket sources via ebay and others for ~$30, and am curious if anybody has any recommendations or advice?

[justanengineer]

Originally Posted by bkw3614

When you have the pan off, please check to see if you have balance gears in the engine. I'd like to know if they are in there.

I read/heard somewhere that none of the QuietLines had balance gears, and it is definitely true in my case. The only gears in the crankcase are the cam timing pair.

Didnt get much done tonight, but I did pull the pan off, and everything looked spotless inside. I still need to scrape the old gasket and clean up the new/old pan (gasket remnants) prior to install. Sorry if I am working on this rather slowly for some, but life has been rather busy lately and shop time has been scarce. I am determined however to do something on it every night until its done or Im out of parts however, even if its only 5 minutes and 4 bolts worth.

[Matt G.]

Originally Posted by justanengineer

I also got a quote on new ISO mounts from the same dealer today and experienced a bit of sticker shock, but thought I should inquire herein about the price. The quote was for $100 for 4 mounts and 2 front rubber bumpers, complete with all of the necessary hardware. List price is supposedly $120+ but I am finally qualifying for the frequent customer discount. Good, bad, ok....opinions? Any workarounds via repurposed bushings sourced from another application?

That's what they cost, but it's worth it. There is no workaround that actually works.

[justanengineer]

Thanks for the continued support Matt.

I left work a bit early today to pony up at two different local dealers (nobody had 4 mount kits), and for just over $100 came away with four mount kits, two bumpers, and a new driveshaft fan.

Tonight I also managed to get a small bit of work done on the engine and tractor. I cleaned up the new/old oil pan and block gasket surfaces, installed and torqued the pan down to 35 ft-lbs per the manual. In the process, I had the thought that patience now may save me time later - I decided to put a quart of oil in the engine with it outside of the tractor and let the engine sit overnight to guarantee no leaks when I reinstall it tomorrow. I then spent an hour or so degreasing the engine bay and underneath the tractor.

I also discovered a bit of damage. When I pulled the engine, the front mounts were standing tall and strong, but the rears were squashed down to ~1/8" and not doing much.



Right rear engine mount bolt/nut poked this hole in the flywheel cover.



Engine cradle appears to have rubbed grooves in the front crossmember. The front of the left groove is untouched and still painted, while the rear of the right groove is worn .150 according to a dial caliper.

Tomorrow Im hopeful to get this tractor completely reassembled within an hour or two after our weekly trip to the farmer's market in the am, do a bit of engine tuning, and maybe even a bit of mowing/testing. Once its running strong and steady, and a bit of mowing has been done, I will look into opening up the rearend to clean out any potential sludge buildup and start on the million other lil tasks to make this tractor perfect again.

[bkw3614]

Hi justanengineer,


From my experience, a hundred bucks is what will have to be spent on new Cub Cadet ISO mounts and snubbers. I think my ISO's were about $19.20 for each set and one needs four sets.

I am really interested in your experience with these mounts. Next year, I am going to replace mine once again with identical mounts to see if Matt is correct. I don't think the mounts were deformed by tightening to recommended specification. When I loosened them from my original install, they relaxed well and yet, still had vibration. After re-tightening them, the vibration is somewhat less, although it still vibrates more than I think it should.

I continue to be amazed at the diverse opinion on this subject. From what has been discussed previously, there seems to me no correct or incorrect answer; but rather, many different experiences.

Please keep me posted on our progress.



The only things that should be green and yellow are the NDSU Bison. GO Bison!