1864 motor question

[rdehli]

Find" t mean to add fuel to the fire , so I went to my owners manual......it says quote white the throttle 1/2 between idle and gastritis the key to the off position. I am going to try ...Will let everybody know how it works.

[Shotgun Wedding]

I have the kohler Command CH23/CH680, manual says to shut down "position throttle control between half and full throttle; stop engine"

This is works, and is santioned by The manufacturer. My engine diesels like a bastard if this procedure is not followed. That my friends is all the truth you need. It is what it is.

[J-Mech]

To the OP:
Looks like I'm the only one who thinks this is fixable problem. After all, it's in the manual to shut it down at mid throttle.

So, here's your choice. Do it "by the book". Or slow down the low idle, and let it cool a little longer. Only thing I ask is, if you try my suggestion, come back and tell us if it works.

I'm done on this thread.

[Shotgun Wedding]

Jonathon, don't get all pissy on this, there are new things to learn everyday. My CH18 was like that, and this CH23 I have now is brand new and diesels horribly of this procedure is not done. I don't think it is mechanical fix in the solenoid. The darn thing is new.

It just is what it is.

[J-Mech]

Originally Posted by Shotgun Wedding

Jonathon, don't get all pissy on this, there are new things to learn everyday. My CH18 was like that, and this CH23 I have now is brand new and diesels horribly of this procedure is not done. I don't think it is mechanical fix in the solenoid. The darn thing is new.

It just is what it is.

Well, then we just disagree. I think it's a fixable problem, and I have a couple years experience with engines to back that up. Never had a gas motor that I couldn't make it quit dieseling at shut down. Just because it's new doesn't mean a thing. I've seen plenty of new stuff that wasn't set up correctly. I encourage you to set the idle speed lower on it, and let it cool for a minimum of 2 min before shutting it off and see if that fixes it.

I'm not getting "pissy". I make a living fixing engines, and on this thread there are a bunch of guys saying "it is what it is", without ever attempting a fix. Yeah, it's a little frustrating to say it's fixable, then have to argue about it. I would have expected more of an "oh.... well, I'll try that and see if it helps" attitude not a "your wrong" attitude.

[jimbob200521]

Originally Posted by J-Mech

Well, then we just disagree. I think it's a fixable problem, and I have a couple years experience with engines to back that up. Never had a gas motor that I couldn't make it quit dieseling at shut down. Just because it's new doesn't mean a thing. I've seen plenty of new stuff that wasn't set up correctly. I encourage you to set the idle speed lower on it, and let it cool for a minimum of 2 min before shutting it off and see if that fixes it.

I'm not getting "pissy". I make a living fixing engines, and on this thread there are a bunch of guys saying "it is what it is", without ever attempting a fix. Yeah, it's a little frustrating to say it's fixable, then have to argue about it. I would have expected more of an "oh.... well, I'll try that and see if it helps" attitude not a "your wrong" attitude.

John,

Without the intention of trying to egg on this debate (I'm really not), I feel like I want to speak my part, being on the other end of the spectrum as you. Coming from a place of learning, I (and many others on this site and this thread) are trying to wrap out minds around what you say vs what the manual says. I, knowing your background and having spoken with you on more than one occasion, put a LOT of stock into what you say, the advice you give. 99.999999% of the stuff that comes out of your mouth and through your keyboard, I (and, again, most on this site) believe without second guessing. However, when a manual written by the manufacturer says to do one thing and you say do another, that instantly creates a conflict in our minds. We want to trust both of you, and why shouldn't we? But, since you are both speaking opposite arguments, we have a hard time deciding what to do. We are all just trying to learn here. Please don't take the people who are "arguing" with you the wrong way; they trust you (at least I believe they do), but they also trust Kohler. IDK, maybe they are looking for proof beyond "I work on engines". Maybe they have searched around other forums and heard the "half throttle then off" advice. Maybe they just don't believe you. Maybe they don't believe Kohler. Honestly, IDK. I just see this thread going down a bad road and don't want you or anyone else taking things the wrong way.

That's it, that's my peace keeping speel

Oh, and for what it's worth: I, for one, let my Command idle for a couple minutes to cool down, then rev to about half throttle and shut it off. Since I've been doing this, I've never had a problem. Is it the right way to do it? Depends who you ask. With the K series, the Mag's, etc, I idle for a few minutes, then shut down at idle.

[Shotgun Wedding]

Originally Posted by J-Mech

Well, then we just disagree. I think it's a fixable problem, and I have a couple years experience with engines to back that up. Never had a gas motor that I couldn't make it quit dieseling at shut down. Just because it's new doesn't mean a thing. I've seen plenty of new stuff that wasn't set up correctly. I encourage you to set the idle speed lower on it, and let it cool for a minimum of 2 min before shutting it off and see if that fixes it.

I'm not getting "pissy". I make a living fixing engines, and on this thread there are a bunch of guys saying "it is what it is", without ever attempting a fix. Yeah, it's a little frustrating to say it's fixable, then have to argue about it. I would have expected more of an "oh.... well, I'll try that and see if it helps" attitude not a "your wrong" attitude.

Is ok, understand the whole 2nd opinion thing, Doctors get pissed at too. So do I at my job as I do see myself as an expert in what I do. No offense please.

Lets put it there then. See if someone can do as you say and see if this fixes the design situation.

[J-Mech]

Ryan I appreciate your candor. And FWIW I see your point.

Let me see if I can explain why I believe that Kohler says what it does about the engine. This is pure speculation on my part, and I am not speaking for Kohler. I have worked for dealerships in my past and been part of equipment "upgrades" and even spent time in training for new machines. IH combines specifically.

When a company like Kohler finds a problem with their product, there several ways to deal with it.

They can:
Let the dealer deal with the issue.
Incite a recall.
Or put out a service bulletin on it.

Being that the original manual says to shut it off from a low idle setting, and then a supplement was added saying to shut it off from mid throttle, my guess is Kohler knew some engines had issues with dieseling. Instead of calling in a bunch of motors for a "non major" issue at a HUGE expense to Kohler. They instead found out that running the engine at a little higher idle gave the engine enough velocity to burn off the fuel still coming into the engine as the fuel cut-off did it's job. Too much of a lag time, too hot on engine, idle set too fast...... whatever the issue, Kohler didn't care because it cost far less to print a couple million one page supplements than it did to fix the issue. It pleased the customer, the complaints went away..... problem solved. Can it be fixed? I'm convinced it can. I am also as deeply convinced that Kohler didn't want to spend the money on 1 million customers complaints when they could just tell them to shut it off at a little higher throttle setting and it worked. Just my theory, and IMHO it fits the bill well.

[J-Mech]

Originally Posted by Shotgun Wedding

Is ok, understand the whole 2nd opinion thing, Doctors get pissed at too. So do I at my job as I do see myself as an expert in what I do. No offense please.

Lets put it there then. See if someone can do as you say and see if this fixes the design situation.

[red56turbo]

Originally Posted by jimbob200521

John,

Without the intention of trying to egg on this debate (I'm really not), I feel like I want to speak my part, being on the other end of the spectrum as you. Coming from a place of learning, I (and many others on this site and this thread) are trying to wrap out minds around what you say vs what the manual says. I, knowing your background and having spoken with you on more than one occasion, put a LOT of stock into what you say, the advice you give. 99.999999% of the stuff that comes out of your mouth and through your keyboard, I (and, again, most on this site) believe without second guessing. However, when a manual written by the manufacturer says to do one thing and you say do another, that instantly creates a conflict in our minds. We want to trust both of you, and why shouldn't we? But, since you are both speaking opposite arguments, we have a hard time deciding what to do. We are all just trying to learn here. Please don't take the people who are "arguing" with you the wrong way; they trust you (at least I believe they do), but they also trust Kohler. IDK, maybe they are looking for proof beyond "I work on engines". Maybe they have searched around other forums and heard the "half throttle then off" advice. Maybe they just don't believe you. Maybe they don't believe Kohler. Honestly, IDK. I just see this thread going down a bad road and don't want you or anyone else taking things the wrong way.

That's it, that's my peace keeping speel

Oh, and for what it's worth: I, for one, let my Command idle for a couple minutes to cool down, then rev to about half throttle and shut it off. Since I've been doing this, I've never had a problem. Is it the right way to do it? Depends who you ask. With the K series, the Mag's, etc, I idle for a few minutes, then shut down at idle.

Very well said Ryan. I think alot of us agree with ya on this. And here we are again.