Something must have broke inside the engine

[Jeff in Pa]

Originally Posted by J-Mech

Guys, I've been emailing back and forth with Keith. We know it broke a rod. It needs an engine, and I have one for him. He just needs convinced it is a good choice to fix a 45 year old tractor.

I vote for putting it back in use. I have two 1968 model 125's that are my everyday tractors.

One for summer duty and the other for snow duty. I started with one and just changed implements depending on the season.

Jon does great work and it would be money well spent. Plus you would need to spend big money to get the same quality lawn and garden tractor today.

Jeff

[cooperino]

My 2 cents.

If your not really mechanically inclined. Buy Jon's engine and put it back together. You will have many many years of trouble free service with regular maintenance. Follow his break in procedure to the letter and you will be fine. Everything else on that tractor can be easily replaced for little cost and little mechanical knowledge with the forums help. There may be cheaper alternatives but your comparing apple to oranges really. Used engine.... who knows you might get lucky, or ya get a smoker or one that throws another rod. Someone here said rebuild yourself.... don't do it.. don't let a buddy at work talk you into doing it. Just not worth putting an engine together wrong and trying costly new parts in a month. Anyway.. good.luck with it

[gretschwhtfalcon]

Thanks to all...I really appreciate each and every post, as it is helpful in arriving at a decision. My brother said he'd certainly do the work, but just thinks personally that it's not worth putting money into. I also worry about the turnaround time in his shop. A local dealer (the Simplicity guy) would also do this work for me but has said it'd be several weeks till he even would get to it.

As Jon has said, we've been in contact and are discussing it. If I decide to fix the Cub, I'll undoubtedly buy the engine from him.

[gretschwhtfalcon]

Just out of curiosity...I looked in the manual to see the instructions for removing the engine. Can't believe how few there actually are...1) removal of fuel tank and panel extensions, coil/generator wire disconnections and generator removal, PTO linkage and removal, motor/generator belt removal, choke and throttle disconnections, and removal of engine mounting bolts (are there 4 in all?). That's all that's listed...and all very familiar to me with the exception of the mounting bolts.

What wonders me is that there is nothing stated about disconnecting anything in the rear of the engine. What about the driveshaft, etc. running into the trans? Can't imagine the engine separates from the rear without doing something. I suppose it's all moot anyway since I don't have a hoist to actually lift the engine out of the tractor. I see the weight is roughly 120 lbs on a K-301 (?) Someone on another forum told me the 301 is "easy" to lift out, so thought I'd read about it. Perhaps being a bit overconfident in saying this - but it really does look like something that I could do, had I the means to lift it out. I'm sure it's much harder in reality than just reading about it in the manual however! So if I had a new 'drop-in' engine AND the means to do it, I'd be more than willing to tackle it. Buying a hoist - even if ever using it twice - would probably be a heck of a lot cheaper than having to send the tractor to a shop.

I'm still betting there's more to it than I'm reading, especially relative to whatever mechanical linkages there are between engine and trans.

[cooperino]

Originally Posted by gretschwhtfalcon

Just out of curiosity...I looked in the manual to see the instructions for removing the engine. Can't believe how few there actually are...1) removal of fuel tank and panel extensions, coil/generator wire disconnections and generator removal, PTO linkage and removal, motor/generator belt removal, choke and throttle disconnections, and removal of engine mounting bolts (are there 4 in all?). That's all that's listed...and all very familiar to me with the exception of the mounting bolts.

What wonders me is that there is nothing stated about disconnecting anything in the rear of the engine. What about the driveshaft, etc. running into the trans? Can't imagine the engine separates from the rear without doing something. I suppose it's all moot anyway since I don't have a hoist to actually lift the engine out of the tractor. I see the weight is roughly 120 lbs on a K-301 (?) Someone on another forum told me the 301 is "easy" to lift out, so thought I'd read about it. Perhaps being a bit overconfident in saying this - but it really does look like something that I could do, had I the means to lift it out. I'm sure it's much harder in reality than just reading about it in the manual however! So if I had a new 'drop-in' engine AND the means to do it, I'd be more than willing to tackle it. Buying a hoist - even if ever using it twice - would probably be a heck of a lot cheaper than having to send the tractor to a shop.

I'm still betting there's more to it than I'm reading, especially relative to whatever mechanical linkages there are between engine and trans.

Ok, You do not really need an engine hoist. The 301 Is Not overly heavy. Be careful if you have a bad back or call a buddy to help lift it out. You will be just disconnecting anything that attaches to the engine and another component. Step one. disconnect the battery. Then take some pictures with your phone for later reference since this is your first time. Now just start on one side and start disconnection of carb, fuel line, linkage etc.. then move to other side. Unbolt the starter and lay it aside. No need to disconnect the wires really. Go slow. Get an old coffee can to collect blots and such.. Its really easier than you think. Have fun with it! and good luck.

Theres really not more than your reading.. Its actually pretty simple.

[gretschwhtfalcon]

Cooperino....thanks. Just read on another forum about a guy who also took a 301 out with no hoist! Pretty amazing. Said he just "muscled it out of there"...lol I assume (this has to be a no-brainer) that you need something supporting the bottom as you begin removing mounting bolts? Otherwise won't the engine drop to the floor? I have to look at it more closely. I've worked around the thing over the past 47 years doing various jobs but never really looked around the engine from bottom and top to examine what actually holds it in. Then, of course, there's getting the new engine out of whatever shipping crate it came in and up and over the top of the tractor. I don't believe I have quite the strength I had in my younger days! I'm very used to keeping copious notes and pictures when I do any job - since it does not came "natural" to me to simply know what goes where and in what order when doing reassembly. Ripping stuff apart is easy (and fun!)...reverse not quite the same.

[J-Mech]

The engine sits on the frame and is bolted in from the bottom. Don't fear, it won't fall out.

Nothing to disconnect on the driveshaft.

Engine without the flywheel, starter and PTO weighs about 70lbs give or take.

[gretschwhtfalcon]

Nothing at all to disconnect on that rear end? Surprising. I can't quite picture how it would separate so easily. So you also concur that this can be done without a hoist? What would worry me infinitely more than taking the old one out is damaging something putting the new one in. It just seems like it has to be one of those "looks easier than it actually is" jobs.

Then there's also the problem of shipping the core. A concern here, as I've expressed before, is whether or not the core would even be accepted if indeed the broken rod damaged it inside.

[J-Mech]

Originally Posted by gretschwhtfalcon

Nothing at all to disconnect on that rear end? Surprising. I can't quite picture how it would separate so easily. So you also concur that this can be done without a hoist? What would worry me infinitely more than taking the old one out is damaging something putting the new one in. It just seems like it has to be one of those "looks easier than it actually is" jobs.

Then there's also the problem of shipping the core. A concern here, as I've expressed before, is whether or not the core would even be accepted if indeed the broken rod damaged it inside.

Shipping the core to who?? Someone else, or me?? I take care of all that. You need not worry. If you buy from someone else, then I have no idea how they handle it.
As long as I get a motor back and block is salvageable then you get a core credit. Seldom are the blocks damaged beyond repair. Only seen a few that were totally junk. Everything in the engine would have to be junk before I wouldn't refund at least a partial core.

[jbrewer]

Given that you are in PA, I'm sure you could find a good used engine that you could hear run in your general area. You're in Cub Heaven in PA. If you need to ship one, check Fastenal. I've shipped several heavy items via that route. It's surprisingly affordable and they care about your stuff. Yes, THAT Fastenal. There's several guys on this forum or the Facebook cub forums with good track records. You're talking about~300$ (options, how long you want to shop and the phase of the moon may account for differences in price). Just another option for you.



I have an engine hoist but I've found it faster to just lift the engines. You don't have to carry it , just move it from the frame to the ground. Remove the S/G and you should be able to move it yourself. I'm no spring chicken and can still do it.

Hope you get your mower going again soon.