1862 question

[Methos]

Originally Posted by jbollis

Perhaps the above poster could share their experience with us.

That would help!

[jbollis]

Just a thought, cub cadet did offer a mounting adapter for the 400 (I think) 8hp self powered tiller, so it could be used with a sleeve hitch on the aluminum rears. I don't really see what the difference would be. I actually think the 400 would bounce,shake and put more stress on the rear end than a solid mounted gear box.

http://www.partstree.com/parts/?lc=c...2FSleeve+Hitch

[Methos]

Originally Posted by jbollis

Just a thought, cub cadet did offer a mounting adapter for the 400 (I think) 8hp self powered tiller, so it could be used with a sleeve hitch on the aluminum rears. I don't really see what the difference would be. I actually think the 400 would bounce,shake and put more stress on the rear end than a solid mounted gear box.

[rkeithley]

Originally Posted by Methos

Got pics? How long have you been using this setup?

I bought the Tiller new, when I bought my new 1811. The CC 1811 had a 3 point and I could never find the parts to use the tiller on the CC 1811 with a 3 point. The tiller just sat in the machine shed. When I bought the CC 1864 new it did not have a 3 point, I decided to put the tiller on it. I bought a sleeve hitch from a CC 782 and used that for the lift. I had to drill new holes to match the aluminum rear end, (because the plate was drill for the cast rear end). The CC 1864 was used around 150 hours about half mowing and half tilling, since that time tilling is all the CC 1864 has been used for. It now has 640 hours on it. So I would say around 500 ??? hours the tiller has been on the CC 1864. (some time is just idling around) 400 hours for sure. The tractor/tiller is at Mom's now because I don't use it as much now that I has a CC 442 tiller on a CC 2084. She and a couple of her friends have big gardens and Mom does not like weeding. (She is 80 years old) Don't tell Her I told you. One of Her friends that also has a big garden is 92 years old, you would think both of them were 60 years old. I just hope I'm that active when I'm 80. They plant their rows far enough apart that the tiller will fit down the row. I will get some picture when I go to Moms. But I will assure you a 1 or 2 tiller can be use on the back or an aluminum rear end safely.

[rkeithley]

Originally Posted by Methos

:big think:

Is that the number of the rear mount tiller that fit a 3 point and had a Briggs motor??
My old neighbor had one like that and it would jump all over the place if he was tilling had ground. He had it on the back of a 1812. He bought it because he did not want to remove the mower deck to till??
The deck was a pain in the rear when he was trying to till.
I don't know what happen to it when he passed away.

[Methos]

Originally Posted by rkeithley

I bought the Tiller new, when I bought my new 1811. The CC 1811 had a 3 point and I could never find the parts to use the tiller on the CC 1811 with a 3 point. The tiller just sat in the machine shed. When I bought the CC 1864 new it did not have a 3 point, I decided to put the tiller on it. I bought a sleeve hitch from a CC 782 and used that for the lift. I had to drill new holes to match the aluminum rear end, (because the plate was drill for the cast rear end). The CC 1864 was used around 150 hours about half mowing and half tilling, since that time tilling is all the CC 1864 has been used for. It now has 640 hours on it. So I would say around 500 ??? hours the tiller has been on the CC 1864. (some time is just idling around) 400 hours for sure. The tractor/tiller is at Mom's now because I don't use it as much now that I has a CC 442 tiller on a CC 2084. She and a couple of her friends have big gardens and Mom does not like weeding. (She is 80 years old) Don't tell Her I told you. One of Her friends that also has a big garden is 92 years old, you would think both of them were 60 years old. I just hope I'm that active when I'm 80. They plant their rows far enough apart that the tiller will fit down the row. I will get some picture when I go to Moms. But I will assure you a 1 or 2 tiller can be use on the back or an aluminum rear end safely.

Looking forward to your pics. Any other changes you had to make?

[rkeithley]

I always want to find the kit to put the no. 2 tiller on the back of a tractor with a three point. It doesn't look hard to build I just don't have the time. I want to buy another no. 2 tiller to put on a late 782 for the kids to till with. The 782 has a 3 point on it and that is why I,m looking for the kit. I'll probably do like I did with the 1864 and remove the three point and use a sleeve hitch to lift it.

[Matt G.]

Originally Posted by jbollis

I don't know why everyone tries to scare people into thinking the aluminum rear ends are weak and cannot handle any kind of work load. I have never heard of anyone pulling the bolts out of the rear. I am not saying it has not been done, but I would bet if it has they were doing something they should not have been doing or the bolts were not tight.

I did some looking and figuring and this is what I found.

Fastener = 3/8-16 x.750. Using about .500

A 3/8-16 thread internal thread has around a .03392 shear area at .500 of use. I don't know the specs for the housing, so I used the lowest aluminum tensile strength of 26000 psi for this figure.

.03392 x 26000 = 881.92 psi per bolt, x 5 bolts = 4409.60 psi on only the bolts themselves would be needed to pull (strip) the threads out of the aluminum housing.

I understand that these numbers are not exact as I don't know the exact specs on the housing. But you can see that someone would have a very difficult time pulling the 5 bolts out under normal use. A person would have to be pulling more than 2 tons, that is more than you can legally haul in the bed of most pickups.

I can however see problems occurring if the bolts are not tight. But that is a another story.

I have a few issues with your calculations. For starters, the threads will fail in shear, not tension, so you cannot use the tensile strength for this calculation; you must use the shear strength. Without knowing the alloy I'd want to assume a fairly conservative value of 11,000 psi. Multiplying that by the area you came up with (which I'm not going to try to verify at the moment) results in a force of about 430 lb (not psi) per bolt or using all 5, about 2150 lb. Now, that 11,000 psi shear strength is ultimate shear strength, as in the shear stress at which the material breaks. The yield shear stress (where permanent deformation occurs) is probably 50-60% of the ultimate shear strength, so that'll bring our load down to 1075 lb, as we don't want yielding to occur, either. Throw a factor of safety on there (I'd say a minimum of 2 for this, I imagine farm equipment is designed to at least that, but I don't know for sure) and we're down to just over 500 lbs. Something neither of us has taken into account is the preload on the threads from the bolt torque, so there is already a fairly substantial shear stress in the threads just from the bolt torque.

Something else you are not considering is fatigue. If this was a constant, steady load being applied, this could be okay, but the load varies with time, which will eventually cause failure of the part, even if the stresses are less than the yield strength of the material. This is why the aluminum connecting rods eventually break in our engines.

This is why I believe the threads can be damaged in the aluminum rears, why CCC never offered the IH 3-point on the aluminum rear tractors, and why xtrememotorworks has the improved lower 3-point brackets. It is unlikely the tiller will pull the bolts out because the tiller is pushing the tractor, whereas other rear implements may cause problems because they are all being pulled and are pulling on the bolts in the rear.

I'm using my #1 tiller on my aluminum-rear 782D with a Cat-0 hitch and the adapter package that I reverse engineered. I recently finished the whole thing but haven't had a chance to test it. Here are some pictures.

100_7885 (Medium).jpg

100_7881 (Medium).jpg

100_7883 (Medium).jpg

100_7880 (Medium).jpg

[Matt G.]

Originally Posted by jbollis

Just a thought, cub cadet did offer a mounting adapter for the 400 (I think) 8hp self powered tiller, so it could be used with a sleeve hitch on the aluminum rears. I don't really see what the difference would be. I actually think the 400 would bounce,shake and put more stress on the rear end than a solid mounted gear box.

http://www.partstree.com/parts/?lc=c...2FSleeve+Hitch

To my knowledge, CCC never offered the IH-style 3-point and sleeve hitch adapter for the aluminum rears, so this is likely meant for using this tiller on an older tractor with the IH 3-point and sleeve hitch adapter. The 400 wouldn't put more stress on the rear unless it was heavier...both tillers will bounce and shake and put stress on the rear; just because the gearbox is solidly mounted to the rearend doesn't change anything; the forces from the tiller still go out through the gearbox and into the rear.

[Cubcrazy]

Glad to have you back Matt!!